Ranting to /dev/null

I think you're on to somethin' Dawg. The ability to make a mix-cd for a friend is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

With vinyl you could almost as easily "make a tape". In fact, I would argue that making a tape is more enjoyable because you actually listen to the music you're sharing as you're deciding what to share.

Actually, making mix tapes wasn't what he had in mind. It's filesharing, making one's entire collection available to others. Not only is it a cool thing to do in itself, but it's also kind of a declaration of one's taste and gives a chance to show off one's collection.

I'm still sticking with Matty on this one. Sharing an entire collection is OK, but it's exactly as Ryan describes it: "a declaration of one's tastes," whereas making a tape can be an expression of affection for another person by picking music you know - or hope - they would like. And with vinyl you get to, as Matt noted, have a taste of the other person's listening experience. I suspect both Matt and I are wallowing in Hornsbyland, but it's a hopeful place to wallow.

A couple of thoughts...

I usually listen to all the music I put on a mix CD, so I'm with Matt n' Mesh in that respect, I just like the digital world more...

On to da Dawgg...I'm not sure that filesharing is cool in the sense of "showing off." It's like being into philosophy because it is the really intelligent thing to be in, and that marks the death of anything. Consider all the dang Mac Scholars and folks that became philosophy majors because it was the "cool, intelligent" thing to do. Now the major is a social/existential wasteland (I'm paraphrasing a Philo professor, so I'm not alone on this one).

I think maybe what you're talking about is fileshowingoff, or, filestruttin', or fileposturing or something like that. I can understand it, but I don't think that's the central virtue (or a virtue at all) of the digital medium. It should essential be about sharing and most importantly communication.

i agree with josiah. the beauty of filesharing is not showing off how musically sophisticated you are, its the sharing and propagation of good music with other people, including yourself.

The longer I mull Josiah's interpersonal aesthetic, the more I like it. Music may be a form of communication from the artist to the listener, and so there's nothing wrong with enjoying a song independently. But eventually that tends to ferment into a self-congratulatory "good taste." And that can be pretty lonely.

You guys didn't read any of the linked articles, now did you?

Ya, but you never copped to the fact that you were visiting Emily, and not just a "friend," now did you...

I did read the article Unpacking My CD collection. It was good. I like what you have to say more.

At your behest, I went back and read Dibbell's piece. Interesting. But just because the virtues of the collector and the democrat merge on Shareaza doesn't mean both those virtues weren't wanting to begin with. Now you can collect to your heart's content, then display your collection to strangers. Great.

But it sounds to me like Dibbell was growing tired of the inherent selfishness of collecting alone, of the feeling of gathering soul food with no one to feed. Now he feels better because he can arrange his gatherings quicker, and show them to folks he doesn't know. There's nothing written of the joy he gets from interacting with the emotions of the artist, or sharing those feelings with a friend. Both are activities that I believe are better accomplished with a phonograph and a cracking fire than by an MP3 player and MusicMatch. Maybe I'm just a grumpy neo-Luddite. But I think some technologies are better equipped to promote human interaction than others. And the vinyl album is one of them.

Plus, vinyl just plain sounds better, hands down.

Sure, smacktard, vinyl sounds better. It's now the choice of the elitists. We peasants use what we can afford...

Plus you're a neo-luddite 'cause it just sounds cool and you wanna be link Lang. But remember, Lang doesn't listen to music, watch movies, or read as much as you do. You need to set your own path. You can be a heror, remember that.

And Mesh, while I agree with you that mp3/musicmatch vs. crackling fire/phonograph isn't even a contest, how bout we consider burned CD as a gift to all your wedding guests vs. crackling fire/phonograph. It's a little more even. Talking about sharing over the INTERNET isn't what I'm defending. I just think you can share with a CD as well as vinyl.

Though vinyl sounds better, you can't make custom mixes on a record, but you can on a CD.

My unfortunate anti-technology vibe was in place long before I met Lang. He did make me hate computers a lot more, but only because the two he had me buy for the Bagpipe were lemons.

A good point about the wedding CDs. But again, those CDs serve a different purpose from the type of mix tape Matt and I are talking about, the kind made with another person in mind. Your wedding CD was made so that everyone at the wedding can remember you and April, and your everlasting love. This is also a fine sentiment, and vastly different from "showing off" your musical taste. But it isn't made entirely with the guests' tastes in mind.

But your point stands: I would agree that burning a mix CD is just as morally "good" as the redeemed-Rob-Gordon style of burning from vinyl to tape. (The most meaningful mixes I ever made were on CDs.) My preference for vinyl is purely aesthetic, and somewhat nostalgic. (I listened to my first records -- Simon and Garfunkel -- on my parents' hi-fi.) I still think that vinyl has a crisper, cleaner sound than most CDs.

As for the cost issue, I suspect the difference is minute, if you're actually buying the CDs, which I know neither you or Ryan are prone to do. There are advantages to downloading as many songs as you like on Kazaa (advantages I've used this week, in fact), and if you want lots of music you won't often listen to, it's certainly cheaper. But if you want to only own music you really, really like -- and own full albums, something Ryan was espousing a while back -- I imagine vinyl would do just as well. I remember you getting along quite well with it back at Andy's old house.

My goodness, this is turning into an extended discussion. I'm leaving work for your house now. I expect by the time I get there, you'll have added to the discussion. We should start writing for Slate's point-counterpoint features; oh, the fun we'd have.

Mesh I feelya...and damn Lang for those two computers he bought you...

But vinyl vs. cd actually, I always heard that it was the "softer" sound of vinyl that made them better than CD's, which are often characterized as hard, crisp, even brash. But anyways, it still doesn't mean vinyl doesn't sound better than CD's...sometimes I just find them kinda muted. But I don't care, I like vinyl for the same nostalgic reasons you like vinyl...but onwards...

You're right that my example wasn't the best, it was just the first off the top of my head. The second was a comment about Morris makin' a cd for Eki, but who knows, he might read this...oh well...

Here's the thing though...I don't grab music of Kazaa that I don't really like. Heck, that's why my music collection (folders on my computer) has very few full albums, just a song here and there. Now, bands I really like I get the whole album or whatever. I'd like to think I'm getting the best of both worlds. Albums I really like, and the occasional odd song I enjoy (like Bust A Move).

I think though is that you might be (and I too on a couple point) assuming Ryan's style of filesharing, which is to have a massive big library of every last album by every last respectable artist alive. Psychological conclusions about this aside, this isn't the "sharin" I'm espousing...but you know that.

I still haven't left work, and already I see the green shores of agreement in sight. (Sorry. English major moment.)

I think we've reached common ground on the vinyl/CD question (I agree, the softness is the advantage to records, although they often feel somehow fuller in sound as well). But I think the biggest issue here isn't the method of music sharing, but the motivation. (Surprise.) I can see only two valid reasons for collecting and sharing music: because something the artist has played or said connects to you, or because you hope it will connect to another person. Internet sharing strikes me as fulfilling neither of these criterion. The best you can say for it is that it performs a useful but illegal service, like dealing marijuana (and that comparison isn't meant to be entirely insulting). At worst, it's a method of flaunting your musical acumen.

This, by the way, is why I've never bought a Radiohead album. Nothing they've done have ever affected me to any significant degree (except "Fake Plastic Trees" which makes me want to shoot myself, not a reaction I'm looking to reenforce), so the only reason I'd have to make the purchase is to show off.

I hope I'm not painting myself into a corner here: I'd still like to believe that some people's tastes are better developed than others, even if they are subjective tastes, and that listening to things you don't instantly love can eventually be rewarding. Can you think of any solution to this problem?

I do think some peoples tastes are better than others...it's just a matter of relevance I think. Like, say you like all the "coolest" and "best" bands in the world, but never share them with anyone. I think that guy is a looser, an in actuality does his taste a great disservice.

I also don't think it's possible to have great taste in music where you weren't influenced by your friends etc. in that taste. You like good music because of your friends who like good music and so on and so on.

Ya, so, where the heck is the standard. I dunno. Maybe those people that love and care the most about life and people and things, they started the whole chain of subjective "good taste" in music.

I dunno, I have a headache from programming and no smokes, so this is probably a nearly incoherent response...

Okay, here's my take. Personally, I like the sound of vinyl over CDs, but will go with CDs (when I actually buy them) for their convenience, e.g. I can get them on my computer easily, because that's all I use anyway. Furthermore, 128kbps mp3s have started to hurt my ears a bit, and I don't rip at anything less than 196kbps anymore, so the quality issue is definitely there. But that's neither here nor there, nor is it really all that important.

Concerning sharing: I think that both widespread sharing and personal sharing are good and important, but for different reasons. Adding one's collection to a filesharing network is a pretty impersonal thing most of the time (DC can be an exception if you're dedicated enough about it), but tickles the collector in me. Now I'm contributing good music (mostly) to the wider community to share of as they like. I don't know any of these people, but that doesn't seem to be the point. It's a chance to contribute.

The other kind of sharing, which mostly takes the form of mix-CDs for friends, is a whole different thing. (Oh, and CDs are definitely the medium of choice. Tapes do work, but they're a pain in the ass to make and to listen to). Now you're doing something creative yourself, combining disparate words of others into a statement about yourself, for someone else. Or maybe just making a statement about your mood to encourage, counter-act, or remember it. In any case, sitting someone down in front of a large and diverse music collection and seeing what they'll come up with is always an interesting thing to watch.