Ranting to /dev/null

I wouldn't do anything nasty to them. After all, that's precisely what practitioners of nonviolent resistance want.

Come on Ryan. Have a little compassion.

When they were at Lee last year, some students spray painted their bus in the middle of the night. Then Lee students showed up the next day to voluntarily clean the bus.

I'm with Ryan. If these guys want equality, they're gonna have to do it by the book. They can do much more for their cause if they stay-out-of-jail. They need to portray themselves as Lazarus at the temple gate, not Jews trying to sack Rome.

Getting arrested, and purposely targeting groups they know have issue with their politics, is juvenile --how does breaking the law help make the point they have something positive to contribute to society at large, and thus deserve the same liberties as everyone else? Sorry, Equality Ride, Law and order everytime.

So human beings have to prove their positive contributions to society at large to win equal rights under the law like, as you so inaccurately put it, 'everyone else?' I seem to remember a founding document that guarantees inalienable rights to all. I'll have to check the Covenant library for that one,

"Equal rights under the law"? Let's be up front about this. They're the ones infringing on the rights of the colleges they trespass upon. These idiots have the constitutional right to say what they damn well please, but they don't have the right to say it where they damn well please. If they want to target Covenant for its stance on homosexuality, fine. They're allowed. They just aren't allowed to do it on campus.

sorry for being so inaccurate, malcolm.

maybe they should organize another Boston Tea Party. only this time they should sink some oil rigs, or something cool and meaningful...and call it project mayhem.

the gay community has been put in this situation, it is unfortunate. i don't think the hoops these guys have to jump through is particularly legal (do state constitutions count?).

but [the trespassing,]its like Chavez walking into an international institution and calling another world leader names. it cost venezuela a security council chair at the UN. running around breaking curfew only gets you sent home.

getting thrown in jail only diverts attention from the legal issue, and reinforces cultural opinion that the gay community should be denied the "inalienable rights" that everyone else takes advantage of.

Compassion. When Jesus was confronted, he always answered with kindness.

The Lee students scrubbing the van reminds me of Jesus fixing the Roman guard's ear after Peter lopped it foff. Good for them.

Bro - we get the point that they do not have the right to be at Covenant. But have you articulated WHY Covenant should not ALLOW them to come talk to students?

This writing makes you seem very angry. Are you mad at someone?

Also, on the list of torts, I'm not sure trespass is so serious. Not as serious as your proposed battery (see reference to not going out of way to spit on them).

As a member of the Equality Ride I would like to make one point of clarification. Our desire is not to be arrested but to have dialogue with the students at the school we visit. We go in to stops that are threatening arrest hoping that they will not. The fact is that it is up to the school to arrest us. We continue forward with our plans in hopes that they will not arrest us and that they will allow the dialogue to happen. Basically we are willing to take the risk of being arrested if it means we have the chance to speak with students.

Look, I understand what you say you're trying to do. I just accuse you of bad faith: a true "non-violent resistance" does not involve doing violence to the rights of others, which you are doing by trespassing. If you want to work with the administration to have a conversation on terms that are mutually negotiated, you'd be welcome. If you wanted to get some place off campus and invite students to visit, you'd be welcome. But by forcing yourselves onto private property where you are not wanted, you destroy any credibility you may theoretically have had.

To be honest, I really don't care what it is that you're shilling. Doesn't matter to me. Claiming the mantle of legitimate civil rights champions for such a juvenile stunt disgraces their memory.

You know what is interesting is we did try to negotiate but Covenant is the one that refused. They made one offer that just didnt really work with us and since we wouldnt agree, took back their offer to welcome us on campus. Also we are planning something off campus One last thing is its not about forcing our way on to campus. We never use force. We simply walk on to a campus. If the school chooses to have us arrested, that is their choice and we go away peacefully with the police. If we were forcing our way on we would resist and fight to be on campus and that is simply not our way. Our hope is that they will not arrest us. So we go on willing to take the risk of being arrested if it means we can talk to even just one person.

Though that's a fine-sounding sentiment, it's disingenuous. You say you don't "use force". Walking on to someone else's property without permission is an act of violence, whether there's a physical confrontation or not. The fact that you say you'll leave if a physical confrontation doesn't change that fact, it simply means you're not willing to take your position to its logical conclusion. You're really betting that the school will realize that it'd be worse for them to get you kicked off than it would be to simply roll over. This isn't exactly the same thing as direct, physical confrontation, but it's violence nonetheless, and an organization that lowers the bar for violence all the way down to "spiritual" should see that.

Well I was trying to be sincere, whether I came off that way or not. I guess it all goes back to why we are doing this. The fact is it has nothing to do with the school itself. We have no desire to make the school look good or bad. We simple want to come and talk about something we feel is vitally important. People are hurting and we want to stop the hurting. So what you term violence we see as trying to help people. It is a fact that people are hurting and even killing themselves. We just want to see that end.

What you see as "trying to help people", I, the school, and most of the people objecting to your presence here and elsewhere, see as endangering to the souls of men. Your organization terms this "spiritual violence". It's on the website. My point here is that your insistence in showing up where you are manifestly not wanted is at least as violent as anything to which you object.

If all you really want to do is talk about issues, great, do it off campus. Your message is largely irrelevant to me, as I've tried to make clear. I think you're wrong, but for the purposes of this discussion I don't care what you're talking about. The administration has made it clear that you aren't welcome, and they don't have to give any reasons for this. Those who care about your issue enough to want to talk about it are entirely capable of going to any location you secure for yourselves. Those who do not want to talk about it should not have to suffer the violence done to their rights by your trespass. If all you were really interested in is discussion, you'd be entirely content to do it without breaking the law. Because even if you don't get arrested, that's what you're doing.

Are you so sure we are wanted by all? Cause Im pretty sure there are some LGBT people on your campus who would love to speak with us not to mention people who are just interested in why we believe the way we do. Also whether you believe it or not I am concerned with the souls of men also. I want to end the message that the church is sending to LGBT people thats say you are not loved and not welcome. There are people who daily feel like they have no place in the church, and those souls are becoming lost souls.

correction *not wanted by all?

I'm sure there are plenty of individuals on campus who want to talk to you. That's their deal. They are entirely welcome to meet you somewhere off campus to have whatever conversation they and you see fit to have. Be my guest.

Covenant wouldn't let a beer distributor have conversations on campus, nor the Klu Klux Klan, nor Planned Parenthood, nor medical marijuana supporters, nor any other organization that espouses any position that conflicts with the school's mission. This has nothing whatsoever with whether or not your sexual ethics are in keeping with Christianity. The issue is moot: you are espousing some position that conflicts with the position of the school, and as such the administration is entirely correct and entirely within its rights to deny you access to campus.

I refuse to engage in conversation with you about the legitimacy of the church's consistent teachings on homosexuality and other deviant sexual lifestyles. That is not the issue, and you'll find that I am not susceptible to being fooled into thinking it is.

I am not trying to fool you into anythinga and Im not sure why you think I am trying to trick or be disingenious. I have been nothing but honest. I was only trying to explain the reason we want to be there.
One thing you have to remember is that at one point they were going to allow us on campus. So they would allow us on campus to talk to people.

As far as the churches message that I mentioned before, whether it is intended or not, that is the message that people are recieving. I know first hand because I, as a Christan, have been told that I am not welcome. But like you said our discussion isnt about that, I just wanted to clarify.

Im just curious are you angry at me and the other riders for wanting to come and talk to people? If so why does it make you angry?

I'm not angry at you for wanting to talk. No real issues there. The degree to which I am annoyed has to do entirely with your presentation and methodology. The group is self-consciously and explicitly attempting to align itself with Mahatma Ghandi and Martin Luther King, Jr. I find the connection of gay rights and civil rights objectionable, juvenile, and disgraceful. It is this attempted linkage and the invocation of their struggle and message that is the problem. I believe that your cause has nothing whatsoever to do with theirs, and that you are dishonoring the memory of noble men who fought for noble ends.

Your "we just want to talk" message is in direct opposition to your "we'll come whether you want us to or not" methodology. Why is it that you can't seem to understand that?

Well you do realize that was a supporter Coretta Scott King was a supporter of equal rights for LGBT people. Also did you know one of the men in Martin Luther Kings inner circle was gay and MLK knew about it. I think if he was alive today he would also be a supporter of our struggle for equality.

And to add to the struggle for equality it is simple things beyond marriage we want. In most states there are no protections to keep you from being fired if you are gay or being evicted from your house just for being gay. Shouldnt we at least have the right to have a job and a place to live without the fear we might lose it?

See, now you want to have a discussion about the merits of your position. Not going there.

Well you made a statement that about our connection to the civil rights movement is real and that the man you claim we dishonor would most likely been trying to help our cause. I just wanted to point that wasnt trying to engage you on the merits of our position.

So twice now you have mentioned things are not open to discussion. So what is?

I know you see our approach as wrong but you have to understand our intent is not to get arrested. There was a school last year that said if we leave the room they put us in we will be arrested. Well they decided to leave the room and risk arrest it they could have a chance to talk. Well when they left the room, even though the police were there, they decided not to have them arrested. That is what we hope will happen, that no arrest will occur and that we will be able to talk. If we never try we will never know.