September 7, 2005
We don't need more jobs, we need more workers
First off, check the discussion and my comments over at bob's blog.
I think it's time we stopped complaining about the lack of good jobs in this country. There are plenty of good jobs. Companies are always hiring professionals: if you've got a nursing degree, there are over 100 positions available to you in the Hershey Medical Center alone. You can basically name your own department, hours, and schedule, they're so desperate.
But not everyone has the discipline to go to college and get their nursing degree. Not everyone even has the discipline to go to a two or three year nursing certification program. But don't start complaining yet: there's also a need for skilled laborers: concrete finishers, electricians, carpenters, mechanics, plumbers, forklift operators, teamsters, computer technicians, roofers, etc. None of these take all that much training. No academic prowess or special level of intelligence is required. So why does the city of New York have to put up posters advertising for bus mechanics and police officers? Because there aren't enough qualified applicants.
Why not? Because we're sending all of our kids through a quasi-academic high school program that leaves most of them with a useless diploma they didn't earn while not preparing them on any level for professional careers. Something like 25% of Americans will go to college. Why should the other 75% have to spend the best opportunity they will ever have to learn vocational skills preparing for a future they will never attain? I think this is something the Europeans have right: if you aren't headed to college, you shouldn't go to high school, you should go to vocational training. Most Americans, I would argue, could use a lot less education and a lot more training. So what if they've read Great Expectations? Does that help them get a job more than a month spent learning to weld?
The blue-collar worker should be the least susceptible to offshoring, not the most. Think about it. Where do you need to be to write computer code? Any place that has power and access to the Internet. Why not India? But where do you need to be to install an electrical outlet? Wherever the building in question is located. Same goes for repair and construction work: it's inherently un-offshore-able. Manufacturing is lauded as the ultimate blue-collar job, but I think that has at least as much to do with the fact that the labor is, as a rule, totally unskilled, so any schmuck can do it. But can anyone repair a bus? No, that takes a certain level of training.
There's a reason that children of college-educated parents are much more likely to go to college than children of blue-collar parents, and it has far less to do with income or education than with upbringing and culture. Stick two kids from the same town into the same public school and the child of college-educated parents is more likely to get an education than his blue-collar counterpart.
I think the problem is that we've got too many opportunities, not too few. I say we abolish the inner-city public high schools and send the kids to arc-welding school. The best they can hope for is a decent, skilled-labor job, so why not just train them to hold it down? Maybe their kids will get a clue and have the aptitude for college, and maybe they won't, but they won't be poverty-stricken.
Death to high school!
Here in the south Chicago suburbs, there's constant demand for decent-paying low-to-no-skilled labor. The problem is that employers can't find people who are both a.) able and willing to learn the particular job; and b.) able to show up for work consistently and work hard.
Posted by: nick at September 7, 2005 5:47 PMRyan,
I want to question your fundemental proposition. I am a private high school teacher. My school sends approx 99% of its students to college (The only one I know that didn't, was planning on it, but his Dad went is given 3 months to live, so he is working and spending time with him).
Your fudnemental premise is that a liberal arts education has no value for practical application in the work world.
I disagree with this. A liberal art education teacher the very fundemental role of reasoning. What are the problems people have? It is that they get out of highschool incapable of reasoning in a logical fashion. I have spoken to numerous businessmen who would give a left arm for a student who has a good liberal arts education as opposed to someone who has a vocational training in that field. Liberal Arts educations create creative thinkers. Vocational people are good at following instructions.
However, I do agree with your solution. I think that alot of people should go to vocational school. Not because it is more practical. But because honestly, a lot of people are incapable of reasoning.
The European method that you speak of is a bit different than you say. From my understanding, at least of the french model, if you show that you are less intelligent than a particular standard than you go to vocational training.
What we have here, is this assumption that everyone has to go to college to get a good job. I don't think thats the case. Heck, I am being paid less than most manual laborers, but I also would say I am more intelligent than many of them (or definatly have studied certian subjects more than they have).
I think what America needs to realize that, yes vocational training is viable option for education. That not everyone needs to go to college (which I think, hopefully, will improve the quality of education at universities).
I would also question your statistic of 25% going to College. I don't know for sure, but I vaugely remember a statistic that is much higher than that. But I couldn't find anything in my brief survay of the Nat. Dept. of Education.
Posted by: Nick at September 7, 2005 6:08 PMApparantly a liberal arts education doesn't help anyone with spelling.
Posted by: Mello at September 7, 2005 6:12 PMNick writes, among other things, "I think that alot of people should go to vocational school. Not because it is more practical. But because honestly, a lot of people are incapable of reasoning." This strikes me as a pretty ignorant thing for such an educated man to say.
Is it me, or does Nick's comment seem to give the impression that he thinks any person whose job didn't require a post-grad education must be a bonafide idiot incapable of reasoning? Let's hope, for his sake, that they guy who fixes his brakes (prepares his lunch, puts out the fire at his house, defends his country) doesn't read this. I know many, many, many "manual laborors" who have read more classics than any English major, know as much or more math than any engineer, know more about computers than your company's MIT-trained IT professional, etc. And honestly, when it comes down to it, I like them and trust them more than most of the "educated" asshats I run across in my line of work at at a "white collar" job.
It all really boils down to figuring out how you want to spend your working years early in life and learning everything you can about it. Just because a guy works construction/manufacturing/what-have-you does not mean he's an idiot. It simply doesn't occur to Nick, and his like, that maybe the guy just very much enjoys his line of work, and very well may (or may not) have a higher I.Q. than most private school teachers.
Posted by: Franklin Lewis at September 7, 2005 7:38 PMFranklin: your post is actually a pretty good example of an acute failure to reason. First, you imply that Nick is an unpleasant person for suggesting that there are people incapable of reasoning. This is either changing the subject or an abusive attack on Nick, but either way you have failed to address his assertion. Second, you argue from personal experience that there are "'manual laborers' who have read more classics than any English major". Whether or not this is true is not particularly relevant, since your knowledge of specific individuals doesn't prove a damn thing. Futhermore, your statements of personal preference in terms of association and trust are also irrelevant, as anyone can agree unconditionally with that you do indeed prefer your stated preferences and proceed to argue for anything they want.
I do agree with you that working a blue-collar job does not mean that one is an idiot. It means nothing of the sort. But it does mean that one does not possess either the inclination or the ability to pursue the kind of tasks required by white collar careers. The mechanic who fixes my car is certainly more knowledgable and "intelligent" in his field than I will ever be, but there are a lot more people capable of fixing a car (or at least learning how to fix one) than there are capable of learning how to analyze and synthesize an argument. You could use some work yourself.
Posted by: ryan at September 7, 2005 9:18 PMRyan,
I'm not sure I buy your statement that there are more people capable of fixing a car than there are capable of learning how to analyze and synthesize an argument. Because I would argue that learning how to fix a car requires both analysis and synthesis.
I think we do a disservice to ourselves and our society when we seek to make a split between "manual," "skilled," and "professional" *careers* and informed, rational, creative *thought* or day to day *activities*. Which is to say, one is not only one's job and education should not only be about furthering economic prosperity. As a low-level college educator, I have found that this attitude exists among my students who are going on to professional careers as doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, etc: they see their education as only a means to an end, namely wealth. This results in a short-sighted perspective not only on one's self, but also on the world, others, as well as "work."
In less verbose terms: I'm not dissing vocational education at all. I'm simply saying it is unfortunate when we act like blue-collar workers can't use or value certain forms of education that are not directly related to their ability to make money. I'm not saying you are saying that, I just wanted to chime in.
(Finally, I would also add to "inclination and ability" "opportunity," whether or not that is self-inflicted. Had I not been raised in the family and environment I came from, I probably would not have pursued my education and would be a blue-coller worker.)
Just thought I'd chuck in a comment or two. I actually think you can't go very far wrong when criticizing an academic system. Criticizing the American system in particular is easy, of course, but criticism is needed in every system, just because every system reflects sin, culture, etc. So at the risk of sounding simplistic by saying that the lack of job applicants is the fault of our schools, I'm gonna go out on a limb and agree with Ryan.
Thought #1: I guess the reason I don't have a problem with the proposition is because I have never really discovered any difference between interacting with college grads and vo-tech grads. It helps, anyway. Sorry for all of you who've never had a good, quality discussion with skilled laborers. It's nice.
#2: I do want to suggest that perhaps we had better not scrap all our inner-city school just yet. Maybe the problem with high school is Dewey and Hyatt and Murray and the secular humanist schol of education. Not being an educator, I'm probably calling this the wrong thing. All I mean is, maybe it's only partly the system and also partly the way we teach.
#3: You're kindof right about blue-collar work being least susceptible to offshoring -- well, you may be totally right. I just want to point out that blue-collar work in the US only happens for direct, small-time consumers. Bigger companies are moving their production units overseas and consuming cheaper blue-collar labor there rather than here.
#4: Well-educated ComDev folk don't rush into a community and start teaching them things. At least, they shouldn't. Rather, they enter needy communities and help them discover local asset and local needs. They start the discussions that will lead to community-based decisions for the future. From what I see on the page, I think this would be easiest for Ryan and probably hardest for Nick, not that any of you will necessarily do that kind of work. It would mean realizing that having an advanced education isn't the only way to add value to your work performance, much less your life. And it would probably also mean admitting that you didn't deserve (and probably didn't maximize) the education you got.
Posted by: bob at September 9, 2005 9:16 PM